religion vs. science

[mrwiseman]

IRT OCB(1):

Also, the whole number thing, I'm talking more of the value of ж, and what is it called.

Since we're working in base 11, ж = ж = 9 + 1 = 10 - 1. You can call it zhe (the name of this cyrillic letter). Its value would be 10 in base 10, A in hexadecimal (base 16), and 1010 in binary (base 2).

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IRT Cataferal(1):

You know, this is 20 times more philosophical than when this post started.

Must be the first time a thread taken offtopic ends up in a philosophical discussion instead of KOS-MOS' ass worship or something like that [img]tongue.gif[/img] .


My take on this subject...is correct, as is the theory of an afterlife, as is the theory that we just cease to be once we die, and there is no more. This is one of those frustrating cases of something being right until its proven wrong.

Yes, but if many theories exist, and none works better than others, the simplest theory is used.


As for the explanation of deja vu, Wiseman explained the psychological theory of it perfectly, although, it is extremely hard to prove it(correct me if im wrong though, there may be some case studies which support it that ive overlooked).

I think the linking system of our memory is, at least, heavily suspected. AFAIK, there's no complete proof for the deja vu theory, though (but it's the simplest one, so it's the one currently accepted and thought to be true).

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IRT OCB(2):

Against afterlife, logic and common sense, which can be proven wrong e.g. heavier things fell faster than light things.

But since it seems to explain observed phenomena, does not present any paradox, and is simplest, it's thought/should be thought/at least I think it correct.

As for the gravity thing, common sense might be wrong, but logic isn't. This is logic:

F = m?a
F = M?m / d? [Coulomb]

=> m?a = M?m / d?

Simplifying by dividing both sides by m, the object's mass,

a = M / d?

which does NOT depend of the object's mass, and is about 9.8 m/s? in the surface of the planet.


Also, to Wiseman, i don't consider be accused of being high as flaming.

I did think it could be considered flaming, so I modded it.

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IRT Cataferal(2):

if there were anything that we could use to solve the question, its science.

I agree, and I generalize this to any question.


Generally speaking, science embodies truth, religion and the theories of afterlife and reincarnation are just an alternative for those who cant cope living with faith in science.

One of the reasons why people invented religion and superstitions was to be able to explain everything. So if Science wouldn't reach that far yet, they'd just use the wilcard god. Why are there stars? God put them there. Why do we die? God wants things that way. But these are delusions. Delusions so important to some people, they even killed scientists when they were able to explain them. Delusions you need to believe in, because they have no logic.


moved further away from nature

I disagree. We are nature ourselves, and what we do is a consequence of it. Why is that we call our buildings "artificial" and a bird's nest "natural"? We are living beings, just like the rest. A strict interpretation of "natural" leads to think everything that happens is natural, and paranormal things do not exist (they are either human insanity, or a misunderstanding of natural phenomena).

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IRT Cataferal(3):

Oh yeah. And you know that little headache and the voice of denial in the back of your head you get after reading long philosophical posts? Maybe thats a defence mechanism to hide the truth. Who knows, i may have been close, lol.

I rarely get these... It's just that, if I read too much of this, I eventually get bored and go watch some hentai. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[One Classy Bloke]

IRT Xellos: I am making sense, i just can't explain it in a way that makes sense to others.

IRT Ral-kun: I'm not confused, it's a hard concept to explain.

IRT Wiseman: I don't think this is a case where we can just pick one theory, as we are uncertain about them all. It's now personal choice.

(On flaming), To each their own, i guess.

I think there are three kinds of people:
- People who see science as the overall truth, e.g. you guys.
- People who think that science is probably the overall truth, but find it boring and bleak, so consider other ideas, e.g. me.
- Religious zealots who suck little boys in the parish, e.g. a good 60-70% of americans (based on observations). (Probably not the whole sucking little boys thing, at least they are zealots...)

Science is a bleak thing, it explains things too well. I mean, how the hell did someone come up with the concept of a computer, and records too? (Don't explain these, i think we have enough to talk about ^_^; [img]wink.gif[/img]

In the words of Nelson (From the simpsons), "Some of us prefer fantasy to pain." Basicly, he knew the truth, but considers it painful, therefore goes for fantasy instead, which is more fun and interesting. I guess that explains me.

[mrwiseman]

I don't think this is a case where we can just pick one theory, as we are uncertain about them all. It's now personal choice.

But back at Dalton's times, his atomic theory was accepted because it was the simplest one which explained a set of phenomena. Others could have come up with theories like "matter is made of tiny people who live together in a society, and hold hands; metal people hold hands tighter so the material is stronger. These people live by eating each others and pray in church". Maybe that could explain stuff as well, but is it the simplest one? In all cases, the simplest possible thing is seeked, because there's no rational reason to make things more complex than they need to be.


- People who think that science is probably the overall truth, but find it boring and bleak, so consider other ideas, e.g. me.

But do you realize these ideas are likely to be delusions later proved wrong by science? Especially if they imply magic. And if there's more to the world than we currently know, which is probably the case, the chances of it being just like you or anyone else thought before scientific observation and deduction are very low, because there are thousands of possible theories to explain stuff, most of which are later filtered when you have enough data to tell what's likely to be possible and what's not.


- Religious zealots who suck little boys in the parish, e.g. a good 60-70% of americans (based on observations). (Probably not the whole sucking little boys thing, at least they are zealots...)

LOL, scientific fact here [img]smile.gif[/img] .


Science is a bleak thing, it explains things too well. I mean, how the hell did someone come up with the concept of a computer, and records too? (Don't explain these, i think we have enough to talk about ^_^;

Oh, damn, now I feel tempted to explain the Von-Neumann machine... It's actually a pretty simple Turing-complete machine! OMG, now Turing's machine requires explanation too... And then I'd like to explain the UTM, and other automata models... Not hot chicks like in Grandia II though...


In the words of Nelson (From the simpsons), "Some of us prefer fantasy to pain." Basicly, he knew the truth, but considers it painful, therefore goes for fantasy instead, which is more fun and interesting. I guess that explains me.

I see... The problem is you're lying to yourself; truth is always the truth, and you'll eventually meet it no matter what. However, this is a matter of personal choice.

[Xellos]

2+2=4 is boring now. So 2+teh square root of 81-17+x=4. No need to know what x is, and don't solve for it either. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

<font color="#101010" size="1">[ February 28, 2004 11:22 AM: Message edited by: Xellos ]</font>

[Cataferal]

Lol at Xel. Yeah, the equations Wiseman is putting up are confusing, but if you think about them hard enough and try to work them out, it makes sense. It may also help you if youve taken A-level maths though.

IRT Wiseman - Yes, this stuff is rather boring, especially since it comes to no end. This is unlike hentai, which comes to an exciting end - you just gotta make sure you dont make a mess! [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[mrwiseman]

Note: Coulomb's equation I posted earlier was simplified for reasoning. You'll need to multiply it by a constant if you want to use it and obtain meaningful data (6.67E−11 N?m?/Kg?). Don't bother with it though, all I wanted to point out is that heavy objects ARE more strongly attracted by the Earth (or anything else for that matter) than light objects, but they are in a linear way, and the strength you need to accelerate them increases in the same linear way, so a 2 Kg rock is twice as atracted as a 1 Kg rock, but it needs twice as much strength to accelerate, so they'll fall at the same speed. Common sense is not 100% wrong, just fails to realize acceleration = F / m.

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IRT Xel: Ok, but x = 10 [img]tongue.gif[/img] .

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IRT Cataferal: LOL.

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Yeah, I think we should agree to disagree and end this thread properly.

Allow me do the honors:


Shion is teh hot! OMG I'd want to launch my pocket rocket on her rainforest!

LOL

[One Classy Bloke]

Speaking of which, does anyone know of any hentai webcomics other than Ghastly's? (Warning, hentai content that is not good for anyone on this board, unless you into shemales and tencale rape, and megatokyo parodies of the evil kind)

[warpedpavilion]

i really think One Classy Bloke is a bit insane...

[Cataferal]

Woah! That guy even has a whole page of merchandise...nice going!
Also, dont worry, i assure you OCB is quite sane...well, when compared to the guy that actually made the webcomic at least.

[One Classy Bloke]

Canti: You've never had to live inside his mind!

Quiet you! ...what? Don't you have fictional characters living in your head?

Mika: People tend not to...